Again, another post about some random and naive thought experiments and speculations. It’s nice to have a blog to write them down. This time, I’m exploring the topic of Immortality.
Convergence
I recently played a game called Paradise Killer. The story sets in a society where a group called Syndicate have lived for millennia ruling over a series of experimental islands. Each and everyone of the Syndicate is a weirdo. They are obsessed with various things and have vastly different personalities and beliefs, which got me thinking – would a group of people tend to become more similar or more different when they lived together for millennia? What would immortality do to our minds?
Maybe the characters in Paradise Killer have such unique personalities so that the story is more intricate and interesting, and so that each of them can have their own goals and motives (it’s a murder investigation game). In reality, I would think people tend to become more and more similar over time.
If you think about people who have been in a marriage or family for a long time, for the most part they tend to have similar beliefs and values. In their daily lives they convince each other bit by bit through random discussions or arguments or comments. They converge. When they hear about the same story, they often have similar judgments.
In a bigger scope, people born in different cultures used to be more diverse, but then there is globalization which mixes our beliefs and values in a big pot. Popular media such as movies, books, music and the internet can reach most people on the planet, mixing our minds and averaging us. We start to have more and more similar tastes, standards and opinions, celebrate the same things, and fall into the same bad habits.
We only live for decades. There may be things that we will never come to an agreement with in our life time. But what if we can live forever? Will we convince each other eventually? Eternity is a long time. Maybe we will reach some ultimate truth(s) that everyone will agree on.
Will we also end up with similar personalities? Apart from biological factors, personalities are shaped by life experiences. If we have infinite lifetime, we should run into the same kinds of ups and downs at some point or another. Given enough time, the big picture of our life should look about the same. It’s like mixing lots of colours and you end up with black, like randomness ends up forming a Gaussian Curve, our personalities may end up being slightly different shades of black, or slightly twisted Gaussian Curves.
But who knows? I could be very wrong. Infinity is not something we can comprehend. Maybe our common sense is no longer applicable in the scenario where we are immortal.
Doom
Murphy’s Law tells us, anything that can go wrong will go wrong. It’s just statistics. Immortality is nice, but there must exist some events awful enough to make you regret being immortal. The probabilities for such events may be infinitesimally small, but multiplied that by the infinity of lifetime, you know these events are bound to happen at some point. Imagine your enemy buries you deep underground, trapping you in darkness for centuries (assuming you can survive), would you rather die? Life has a million different ways to torture a person, some will make you wish you were never born. If you manage to pull through one of these events, will you be able to make it through a million more?
Should we have a suicide button for these situations ? What about the ability to respawn?
Inequality
Luck may play a big role in our lives because life is short. But when lifetime is infinite, statistically, luck has minimal effects in a long run. It merely causes small fluctuations. It seems what will make a difference in a long run is anything you have that I will never have, things that I cannot trade time to obtain, such as perhaps your genetic advantages. If you are born to do something slightly better than others, multiplying that by infinity, you will achieve infinitely more. Even if you have a rough start, you may eventually pull ahead. So…does it mean some lucky individuals are born to be superior?
A big assumption here is that genes can’t be changed, that our DNA sequences are read only algorithms. This is already not true as we have technologies such as CRISPR that can alter our DNA. Changing DNA may be one of the most feasible ways to achieve immortality in the first place. If that is the future, then a different kind of inequality arises – the top elites and corporations who own the technologies may gain unprecedented power and influence, as Yuval Noah Harari described in his books. This inequality probably won’t stand forever though. Murphy’s Law will destroy it.
I assume we will eventually have the technology to change all DNA in our bodies. Theoretically, I can become you. Rather, there must exist some optimal DNA sequences that people pursue. Would most people be very similarly good looking then? Is there going to be fashion in DNA? Can we copyright DNA? In any case, if we live forever, chances are that even biologically we become more similar to each other. If DNA is not unique anymore, are there really things that I can’t trade time to obtain in a long run? Does inequality really exist in a long stretches of time?
If that is the future, if anything in us can be changed, what are our identities then? Our memories? Is memory not editable in the future? I guess our pasts will be unique, but can the past be used as identity at all?
Imaginations
I wonder what immortal life will be like. If you can potentially live forever unless you die by accident, you will probably want to stay as safe as possible. Death is a lot more scarier when you have an eternity to lose. But how can you enjoy life without taking any risks? Will you never go outside in fear of traffic accidents?
The body double approach
I guess one way to stay safe is to have your body secured in a very safe place, and remote mind control a clone of yourself to go outside and enjoy life, assuming technology is advanced enough that you can see and sense through the clone as if you are inside it, and assuming your brain is capable of this. This way, if the clone dies, you can just get another one, while your real body is living forever (figuratively) in the safe place.
However, since information cannot transmit faster than the speed of light, there will be milliseconds of latency before your command reaching the clone and the respond coming back to you. Gamers know that playing video games with high latency is frustrating. In VR, 20 milliseconds of input latency may even cause motion sickness. Light can only travel 6000 kilometres in 20 milliseconds, that’s shorter than the earth’s radius. Even assuming the signal can penetrate earth, your clone can’t even go half way across the earth from you without having latency issues.
If we still want to go for this approach, maybe one solution to the problem is to give the clone a copy of your brain and let it act on its own. It will keep a consistent remote connection to sync memory with your real body. This way, you get to experience the life that the clone is experiencing in real time. You are not directly controlling the clone, but since the clone is an exact copy of you, the actions it has taken are also what you would have done if you were it. As long as the clone is not physically moving way too fast, there shouldn’t be latency issues.
For a more immersive and authentic experience though, we will probably need to make your brain forget that your body is fixed in place, and trick your brain to believe that you are inside the remote clone, that the clone’s decisions are your decisions. And for the clone to live a more natural and autonomous life, it won’t know itself is a clone. It won’t know your existence.
While we are at it, instead of an exact copy of yourself, why not create a different persona for a different experience? Why not have multiple clones at once to experience multiple lives at the same time? And do you have to be human? Would you like an extra arm? Can you ok with sharing your clone with someone else?
Things can go wrong though. A difficulty is to maintain the connections. If the connection to your brain breaks, then your “character” is going rogue. They can fully function on their own without you. They don’t know they are supposed to send you memories. They don’t need you. You are not their consciousness, you are not their soul.
Some connection issues may be temporary or can be fixed remotely, but some will inevitably need manual intervention. So, to ensure your best experience, there will be human or AI agents who secretly oversees the society and catches these “defects” to fix them or eliminate them.
At this point, I feel like I am writing Sci-Fi. There could be a story here where the main character suddenly realizes he is being hunted down, and as he makes it through various tight situations and encounters, he slowly discovers what he is as well as the sad dystopian truth. What will he do? Will he take the blue pill? Maybe he also discovers a mental virus spreading in people’s minds, brainwashing them little by little to become in harmony with some mastermind. How would our main character resolve this crisis?
The simulation approach
Another approach to stay safe while ensuring a good long life is through virtual simulations. If we had the technology to send memories into our brains, instead of having clones to create memories for us, we could just render a virtual reality world into our brains. Just like how the Matrix is experienced by the people.
In the body double approach, you may be able to become a different person, but through simulations, you can experience a whole different world. In the real world, no matter how we change it to our liking, there are things I assume we will never be able to change, such as rules like physics. But in a virtual world, we can bend physics, we can turn back time, we can look like anime characters and have super powers. We are the gods in these worlds.
But playing god will eventually become boring, just like how cheating in a video game often takes the fun out of it. It is better to not remember that you have admin access to the world. Let’s say you simulated the world from Lord of the Ring and you play as Frodo Baggins – while going through all the hardship with Sam and the gang, wouldn’t it be annoying if you know all this time that you could just teleport the ring to Mount Doom, or even delete the ring using a command? It totally breaks immersion.
So, you will not know that you are inside a simulation. This way, the experience is not going to be affected by the outside knowledge. Of course, this is optional, but recommended. And don’t worry, the system will give you an emergency eject option in case you are experiencing significant level of suffering, and this level is also optional and adjustable by you.
Are we living in such a simulation right now? At this point, the implications are getting scary. If live is a simulation, and we are heading towards immortality, does it mean that we will never come out of the current simulation? And we may be heading into a simulation of our own creation, and inside that simulation, we may eventually achieve immortality and will never get out? Would the creators of simulations foresee this problem and forbid immortality? If so, is immortality not possible in our current world then? Also, if I suffer enough, will I see an eject option?
There is another problem. To simulate a world, we need computational power and memory. Computations are required to calculate how things will behave. Memory is required to keep track of things’ current states. If we want the world to be as realistic as possible, we need to simulate down to the atom level and smaller. That is a huge amount of work. It requires an enormous amount of energy to process every “frame” of this world. And how much memory do we need? How much physical memory is required to track one simulated atom? To build that required amount of physical memory, how many real-world atoms does it take? Would compression help? Would Quantum computing help?
There are a lot more technical questions I am not going to explore. What I am getting at is, if we were to create a simulation of our world, it is going to be a watered-down reality. It is not possible to create an exact replica. It will be smaller. It will run slower. There will be bugs in the program (which may be fine because people in the simulation will probably think that’s how the world works, like gravity could be a bug in our world, and we just call it physics).
And we may be able to have only one or a few simulations running due to how resource demanding they are, so we may need to share simulations – in other words, multiplayer. That means no playing gods because that is unfair, and everyone needs to forget they are in a simulation because it will not work if some people are aware. Maybe we need to have a vote on what the world(s) should look like.
If our world was a simulation, that means the “real” world would be larger and more complex, and if that world was also a simulation, then the “real” “real” world would be even larger and more complex.
The upload approach
If science and technology are advanced enough, and we are able to understand and manipulate our consciousness, then the next level solution is to upload our consciousness.
You no longer need a body to stay alive. You are no longer physical. You become a piece of software, an algorithm. You exist in the network, you live in some data centre somewhere. You move at the speed of network transmission speed. You think at the speed of processor speed. If you want to interact with the physical world, you can download your consciousness into a compatible body. Or if you prefer simulated worlds, you can easily go in and out.
You don’t have to tend to your body needs anymore. This includes food, water, oxygen, warmth, sleep, sex. You no longer feel the need for them, because they used to be signalled by your body. There is small problem here, throughout your life, you have gotten used to pursuing these stuff. It is hard-wired in your brain (or your “algorithm”). After you are uploaded, initially you may still want some of the stuff, but you don’t need them, so it will be less satisfying getting them virtually. We may need to artificially program you so you can virtually feel things human can feel, just to ease your transition to a whole new life. I believe eventually you won’t need it.
You see, you are no longer human. You have come far from being human. From a biological standpoint, you are already deceased. Only your mind becomes immortal. This is not sad. This is evolution.
Being a piece of software means that you can be copied and backed up. You are less likely to die for real. I’m not even sure if the usage of the word “die” is appropriate here anymore.
Data corruption is a new risk though. Part of you may accidentally go missing or changed. You can always recover from backup, but what if the corrupted part affects your decision making and you decide not to recover? And should you worry about small corruptions? A small DNA mutation can lead to cancer in human body. Is there going to be cancer in the uploaded minds?
The idea of uploading is very farfetched. There are so many uncertainties that my imagination cannot keep up with. I don’t want this section to be filled with questions. I guess the biggest and common concern is, how can we be sure that our consciousness will be uploaded? How can you prove that once I am uploaded, I will wake up in the virtual world? Because it appears the same to you if I die upon upload, and a simulation of me is created. How can you be sure where my consciousness is?
Closing Remarks
Imaginations about the future may seem scary sometimes, but this is only because we are trying to let a huge amount of changes sink in at once, changes that are supposed to brew gradually over a long time. We are talking about immortality here.
Also, I threw ethics completely out the window in my speculations, as I don’t think ethics will stand in the river of time. Someone will eventually breach ethical boundaries, and others will follow, unless there are good reasons not to.
Despite the concerns, I do hope to live longer. Long, long enough to get very, very bored.
05/12/25 Edit
This topic suddenly crossed my mind yesterday. Maybe I should make another point – death may become more and more tempting as time goes on.
If you have lived long enough and experienced everything, things start to become pointless, repetitive and boring. It is hard to find new experiences. At some point, you may say to yourself, “I’ve lived long enough.”
Do you know that feeling when you have played your favourite video game for a long time, you eventually get tired of it and you leave it behind? Maybe you no longer log in to an MMO, or you no longer load up a Minecraft world. You were once so invested in them. You had a great time. But was it a hard thing to do or did you quit naturally?
Experiment shows that, when a person is trapped inside a room with nothing else but a button that once pressed, sends them an unpleasant electric shock, many would choose to press the button, because they cannot stand the boredom and need the stimulation. For an immortal being, what’s the ultimate stimulation?
Maybe it’s a button to end this life, or maybe it just erases or alters the memory. Either way, it’s an exit button – you press it and you are gone.
What’s there to lose really? When you have too much of something, that thing becomes less valuable.
Would anyone stop you? Everyone is having this problem. Other people may very well be contemplating this too, so they will probably understand.
By the way, I am not mentally unwell. I just like to wonder how things work. An INTP here.